tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post1337458880333417711..comments2024-02-28T22:03:57.237-05:00Comments on The Automatic Earth: Debt Rattle, December 30 2008: The End of CreditIlargihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09698428009501267664noreply@blogger.comBlogger82125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-51673047744437700012008-12-31T14:23:00.000-05:002008-12-31T14:23:00.000-05:00On the destruction of money argument, I'm still no...On the destruction of money argument, I'm still not sure I understand it. On the derivatives, if someone loses and has to pay up, don't they give that money to someone else. Exactly how does the money from the bailout, just disappear?<BR/><BR/>And do we know for certain they are covering losses with this money? As Paulson made sure that the disbursements would remain secret, how can we be sure Weaseldoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12657976442272800800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-72512329235199289912008-12-31T13:14:00.000-05:002008-12-31T13:14:00.000-05:00As to the premature death of Thermodynamics, I rem...As to the premature death of Thermodynamics, I remember an evening when I was eating dinner, and the news was reporting famine in Ethiopia. Didn't they know that I had food? There clearly was not a famine! Yet they continued to starve anyway!<BR/><BR/>Dark Matter theories and all the rest do us no good right now. Maybe there is a time when they can allow humans to resume exponential growth, but Weaseldoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12657976442272800800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-19733299517625007602008-12-31T12:37:00.000-05:002008-12-31T12:37:00.000-05:00GJ, it's virtually impossible to read everything e...GJ, it's virtually impossible to read everything every day here, I try now and then, but it's just not practical. And that's just the reading part, imagine how much work it takes to actually dig this stuff up every day.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-83580083044538596762008-12-31T12:36:00.000-05:002008-12-31T12:36:00.000-05:00Gallinazo, from what I gather, things like dark ma...Gallinazo, from what I gather, things like dark matter are merely theoretical constructs designed to make logical errors in another theoretical construct function. In other words, we're looking right at a classic example of what Kant noted reason always does when it expands beyond the range of actual experience.<BR/><BR/>In other words, the big bang theory doesn't work without contructing anotherAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-9710617428965290432008-12-31T12:09:00.000-05:002008-12-31T12:09:00.000-05:00Ilargi responded:++ I've posted quite a few of Hal...Ilargi responded:<BR/><BR/><I>++ I've posted quite a few of Halligan's pieces.</I><BR/><BR/>I do beg your pardon. I did look but couldn't seem to find any, must be down to limitations of my RSS reader app. I obviously need to transcribe the TAE posts into a proper document store.<BR/><BR/>(BTW, thanks for actually including the referenced content rather than providing only links. Not only does itAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08055271529910754579noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-54483227616867417382008-12-31T11:57:00.000-05:002008-12-31T11:57:00.000-05:00Re el gallinazo, Hanged Man, and ThermodynamicsWhi...Re el gallinazo, Hanged Man, and Thermodynamics<BR/><BR/>While what you say may be true in fact, I’ll wager we should not be holding our collective breath; thermodynamics does for our physical world as does Newton. Sure, Classical mechanics fails to account for non-gross phenomena, but for everyday use it not only is a good enough approximation, it’s indistinguishable in practice from a solution goritsashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09767556060065779629noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-36410332909371583592008-12-31T11:38:00.000-05:002008-12-31T11:38:00.000-05:00VK,Please, get real. While the collapse of the Rom...VK,<BR/><BR/>Please, get real. While the collapse of the Roman Empire was tough on everyone involved in the Roman Empire, the fact is one estimate puts global population at a mere 2 million at the beginning of the Roman Empire. To compare the disintegration of the Roman Empire with the apparent collapsing of modern- and post-modern-industrial societies is something of a misnomer, In my opinion.<goritsashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09767556060065779629noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-68135424332692258472008-12-31T10:59:00.001-05:002008-12-31T10:59:00.001-05:00Adios a babylonia: "Greenpa,just curious why?" sor...Adios a babylonia: "Greenpa,<BR/><BR/>just curious why?"<BR/><BR/> sorry, you lost me- why what?Greenpahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17224906349154302210noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-75742082468033041352008-12-31T10:59:00.000-05:002008-12-31T10:59:00.000-05:00Illargi, Stoneleigh:What kind(s) of economic schoo...Illargi, Stoneleigh:<BR/><BR/>What kind(s) of economic school are your reflections based upon?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-43809124783031035692008-12-31T10:53:00.000-05:002008-12-31T10:53:00.000-05:00GallinazoNo dark energy or matter can counter the ...Gallinazo<BR/><BR/>No dark energy or matter can counter the fact that all incoming and outgoing energy in this closed open system called earth will have to cancel each other out. It's either that or freeze or fry. You either have a constant, or you have no life as we know it. I understand you points, but I do think thermodynamics so far survives all scrutiny unshaken.<BR/><BR/>I always get back Ilargihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09698428009501267664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-23201342438707427212008-12-31T10:43:00.000-05:002008-12-31T10:43:00.000-05:00Starcade"Ilargi:What banks survive such an exposur...Starcade<BR/><BR/><I>"Ilargi:<BR/>What banks survive such an exposure of all their debt and bad bets?"</I><BR/><BR/>My point exactly. It has to be done, but it's dangerous territory. Banks equal political power.Ilargihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09698428009501267664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-59952526566235688842008-12-31T10:25:00.000-05:002008-12-31T10:25:00.000-05:00Re Hanged Man and ThermodynamicsMaybe-maybe not. ...Re Hanged Man and Thermodynamics<BR/><BR/>Maybe-maybe not. Thermodynamics is a classical, 19th century macroscopic analysis. It was created while the existence of atoms and molecules were still being hotly debated. It has no place for the recently discovered dark matter and dark energy and cannot account for them in the least.<BR/><BR/>Dark energy in particular may prove to be the el gallinazohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00642036843036726232noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-39843905518658819192008-12-31T10:11:00.000-05:002008-12-31T10:11:00.000-05:00Ilargi: I'll ask you the same question I would as...Ilargi: I'll ask you the same question I would ask Denninger:<BR/><BR/>What banks survive such an exposure of all their debt and bad bets?<BR/><BR/>With the amount of bad bets out there, any full exposure, it would seem as a matter of mathematics, to take out _EVERYTHING_.Starcadehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09226367306835781483noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-23740823272207794042008-12-31T08:59:00.000-05:002008-12-31T08:59:00.000-05:00The Oil Drum Canada has an important and useful in...<A HREF="http://canada.theoildrum.com/node/4495" REL="nofollow">The Oil Drum Canada has an important and useful introduction to the laws of thermodynamics.</A><BR/><BR/>Everything you see, hear, breathe, expel, expunge, argue over, win over, lose to, buy, spend, fight for, surrender to, or - dare I say it - worship, begins and lives and dies and dissolves under the principles of thermodynamics. The Lizardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12044779666881689690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-91108430318043594492008-12-31T08:56:00.000-05:002008-12-31T08:56:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.The Lizardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12044779666881689690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-27105914067123831702008-12-31T08:40:00.000-05:002008-12-31T08:40:00.000-05:00Let's be real here. The way it works in capitalism...Let's be real here. The way it works in capitalism including the banks is that DEBT is valid as an asset. Of course that's what's wrong with this system.<BR/><BR/>When you can carry debt you are considered wealthy and that debt allows you to play the game.<BR/><BR/>No bank is solvent, Not a one. They are all leveraged and have debts of enormous proportions. But that's the secret that everyone SanderOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10644486033984481531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-50173828802763982752008-12-31T08:31:00.000-05:002008-12-31T08:31:00.000-05:00One more thing on Halligan: As you probably know, ...One more thing on Halligan: As you probably know, I've been hammering on the need to reveal all debt for a long time. I also realize the consequences, and I'm not so sure Halligan does. Forcing banks to come clean will be the end of the road for many, if not most, of them. Since policy to date is to save as many banks as possible, it's no surprise that no-one is trying to get the dirty laundry Ilargihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09698428009501267664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-87994762331092151542008-12-31T08:17:00.000-05:002008-12-31T08:17:00.000-05:00Graham,I've posted quite a few of Halligan's piece...Graham,<BR/><BR/>I've posted quite a few of Halligan's pieces.Ilargihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09698428009501267664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-77895158632642214222008-12-31T08:03:00.000-05:002008-12-31T08:03:00.000-05:00Hi guys. Been reading since 09/08. Very nice work....Hi guys. Been reading since 09/08. Very nice work. We hope to be able to make a $$ contrbution in the New Year (have a good one, BTW).<BR/><BR/>I recently caught up with an author friend, he passed on some intel. It's possibly just coincidence but his publishers informed him that they are experiencing problems in obtaining supplies of (Chinese-originated) paper for book printing. Perhaps we're Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08055271529910754579noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-35453150704038643872008-12-31T07:09:00.000-05:002008-12-31T07:09:00.000-05:00Paper wealth is not wealth. That wealth is create...Paper wealth is not wealth. That wealth is created out of thin air and disappears into thin air.<BR/><BR/>But when tangible property is created and owned it too is wealth. Now the value of a piece of property is relative. What is an acre worth? What is a car worth? What is a fishing rod worth? Whatever those "things" are worth, they are worth more than a stock certificate, a bond, a SanderOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10644486033984481531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-23652684524284375772008-12-31T07:01:00.000-05:002008-12-31T07:01:00.000-05:00When you have "money" that you don't spend, and is...When you have "money" that you don't spend, and is savings or "investments" that money works its way to the financial markets and becomes "credit" and leverage.<BR/><BR/>The real problem in capitalism seems to be about leverage and margin purchases and various other "instruments". People who have accumulated excess feel the need to have this "grow" at least to match inflation, but in the SanderOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10644486033984481531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-53820402577427331412008-12-31T06:53:00.000-05:002008-12-31T06:53:00.000-05:00"SanderO said........ as long as their is "wealth"...<I>"SanderO said...<BR/>..... as long as their is "wealth" somewhere, there will be credit. No?"</I><BR/><BR/>Obviously, I am talking about the end of credit as a functioning lubricant for our economic systems. Not about me lending you 5 bucks tomorrow, January 1.Ilargihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09698428009501267664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-70715876973482417942008-12-31T06:50:00.000-05:002008-12-31T06:50:00.000-05:00Orion,You are right. The endless discussion on (in...Orion,<BR/><BR/>You are right. The endless discussion on (in-) deflation needs to take into account the $60 trillion in "wealth" that has vanished in the past year, as per <A HREF="http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article7923.html" REL="nofollow">Marc Faber</A>. The Prudent Bear people are way off target there. You can't have inflation from a $5 trillion debt injection if $60 trillion disappears at Ilargihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09698428009501267664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-86247942340828703402008-12-31T06:30:00.000-05:002008-12-31T06:30:00.000-05:00I keep wondering who is actually buying all the go...I keep wondering who is actually buying all the government (especially US) bonds?<BR/><BR/>If it is private investors I would guess most of the money used to purchase these bonds is really money made on the financial boom.<BR/><BR/>Wouldn't it be some sort of justice if the US government prints so much money they make these bond worthless, losing the money generated by the boom?tobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16945922363239820360noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-33366987373973994622008-12-31T06:17:00.000-05:002008-12-31T06:17:00.000-05:00It's not difficult to embrace the downward self fu...It's not difficult to embrace the downward self fulfilling spiral which spells the end of the capitalist system we are living under. It's built on credit and lots of smoke and mirrors. One would think that when the smoke clears and the credit is gone there will be nothing left of the economy.<BR/><BR/>On the other hand, if the adults come forth they might be able to construct a trade, SanderOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10644486033984481531noreply@blogger.com