tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post8221180752788984485..comments2024-02-28T22:03:57.237-05:00Comments on The Automatic Earth: February 3 2009: Broke Broker BrokenIlargihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09698428009501267664noreply@blogger.comBlogger68125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-13063338419039230752009-02-04T17:05:00.000-05:002009-02-04T17:05:00.000-05:00At anon 10:50And the Iraq oil may not be enough fo...At anon 10:50<BR/><BR/>And the Iraq oil may not be enough for the military:<BR/><BR/>http://www.popsci.com/node/31142Ningenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07714390119215804335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-69263254357541527572009-02-04T16:18:00.000-05:002009-02-04T16:18:00.000-05:00Green man makes an interesting point, maybe we are...Green man makes an interesting point, maybe we are using the language too loosely or to differing degrees of looseness. I certainly tend to think of the secondary effects of PO as PO though they are not the same thing. I believe PO is passed meaning we won't be producing a greater amount ever again, but the downward slope will be more shallow or even of a lengthened plateau which would delay Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-52882578220032449452009-02-04T15:33:00.000-05:002009-02-04T15:33:00.000-05:00I&S,Do we have on record in some past Rattle a...I&S,<BR/><BR/>Do we have on record in some past Rattle a discussion of why derivatives, esp. CDOs, will not "zero-out" as many people have suggested? I'm pretty sure I have a dim memory of such a discussion and being convinced by the reasoning that they will not in any zero-out, but it's been such a long time...Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15614205920972531674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-37164978140592445512009-02-04T15:23:00.000-05:002009-02-04T15:23:00.000-05:00Regarding FC delaying PO, I'm pretty sure that shi...Regarding FC delaying PO, I'm pretty sure that ship has already sailed.<BR/><BR/>If demand had held up through 2008, all liquids production in 2008 would probably have exceeded 2007's production, and 2009 might or might not have exceeded 2008.<BR/><BR/>Given the (apparently successful) cutbacks in production in the last months of 2008, I suspect that 2008 production will be below 2007, once the Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-16329133031025886302009-02-04T14:51:00.000-05:002009-02-04T14:51:00.000-05:00Hello,Thank you for the many replies to my PO/FC o...Hello,<BR/><BR/>Thank you for the many replies to my PO/FC observations.<BR/><BR/>I certainly agree that abundant energy made our financial system possible and that there are clearly links between the two. I have not read Tainter, but the references to Greer in the post by Stoneleigh were very clear and I can imagine that passing peak in per capita energy has been straining the overall system.<BRAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-54569302669979824612009-02-04T14:02:00.000-05:002009-02-04T14:02:00.000-05:00see:http://www.governing.com/articles/0902tax.htm ...see:<BR/>http://www.governing.com/articles/0902tax.htm <BR/>A Break in the Levy<BR/>Property tax revenue has kept localities solvent in many a recession. It won’t happen this time. <BR/>http://seekingalpha.com/article/118103-u-s-debt-default-dollar-collapse-altogether-likely?source=feed <BR/>U.S. Debt Default, Dollar Collapse Altogether Likely <BR/> http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601082Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-81412366812526136192009-02-04T13:55:00.000-05:002009-02-04T13:55:00.000-05:00"Russia without Gravity"Good news, comrades!The wo..."Russia without Gravity"<BR/><BR/>Good news, comrades!<BR/><BR/>The word is spreading, or this<BR/>may be an example of synchronicity.<BR/><BR/>Everything floats away,<BR/>and even Persia has <BR/>their satellite in orbit.<BR/><BR/>The heavens of Capital <BR/>will fall on our heads!Gravityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09126443076478406015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-66384301011683085352009-02-04T13:45:00.000-05:002009-02-04T13:45:00.000-05:00Anon @10:50,Iraq is the military's very own privat...Anon @10:50,<BR/><BR/><I>Iraq is the military's very own private oil reserve.<BR/><BR/>Little or nothing from Iraq will ever reach the public retail/consumer level.</I><BR/><BR/>I completely agree with this. Once oil is scarce it won't be available for ordinary people to 'waste' (from the perspective of the powers-that-be) going about their business when it could be used to secure or defend Stoneleighhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15099878430757036461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-78735009095137535022009-02-04T13:33:00.000-05:002009-02-04T13:33:00.000-05:00Hi Linda S.Your racetrack example encompasses anot...Hi Linda S.<BR/>Your racetrack example encompasses another existing problem.<BR/>The racetrack cannot give back the betting amount because they gave it to yesterdays winners and they need new bets. <BR/>They cannot shut down the race tracks.<BR/><BR/>The race track owners and employees do not want to reduce their compensations and want to continue just as if nothing bad has happened.<BR/>jaljalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16969819389823705458noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-63028696653284843662009-02-04T12:29:00.000-05:002009-02-04T12:29:00.000-05:00Ilargi,I know this is a little late, but I have a ...Ilargi,<BR/><BR/>I know this is a little late, but I have a question on your introduction from the other day using betting slips. It took me a little while to figure out my question. In your analogy of betting slips, you write about the banks as if they are the betting slip holder. <BR/><BR/>But, isn't the problem really that they are the track owners who underestimated the risk of highly Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-68101355334042301892009-02-04T12:12:00.000-05:002009-02-04T12:12:00.000-05:00El gallinazo @ 6:09,Thank you for saying it so wel...El gallinazo @ 6:09,<BR/><BR/>Thank you for saying it so well.<BR/><BR/>Bigots are shameless human beings, but they do know who they are.<BR/><BR/>"If you have been in the dark so long, light hurts your eyes." ~ DICK GREGORYAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-39784016594221496602009-02-04T10:50:00.000-05:002009-02-04T10:50:00.000-05:00The US military is the largest single entity consu...The US military is the largest single entity consuming oil in the American Pantheon.<BR/><BR/>Iraq is the military's very own private oil reserve. <BR/><BR/>Little or nothing from Iraq will ever reach the public retail/consumer level.<BR/><BR/>It's all a 'national security' energy palooza kinda thing.<BR/><BR/>The military was defending its own 'mother's milk'. Using enormous quantities of oil toAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-83016287796915189212009-02-04T10:49:00.000-05:002009-02-04T10:49:00.000-05:00"In future generations, monuments will be built ho..."In future generations, monuments will be built honoring Bush"<BR/><BR/>I think those "monuments" may be straw-stuffed effigies hung with a rope and set on fire.<BR/><BR/>Regarding PO and FC, I don't think there was direct causation (i.e. that consumers paying a few hundred dollars per year extra for fuel made them default on their suicide mortgages). However, once production hit a plateau, that Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-11277039755755374002009-02-04T10:25:00.000-05:002009-02-04T10:25:00.000-05:00@ Stoneleigh at 10:01Wow. That was really good; in...@ Stoneleigh at 10:01<BR/><BR/>Wow. That was really good; incorporating Tainter, Greer, economic theory and peak oil into a succinct post like that is why I chose to donate to this site, and no others.Chaoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14511045883879753073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-40029706393239878522009-02-04T10:14:00.001-05:002009-02-04T10:14:00.001-05:00Cowpoke @ 1:00am "Neocons knew energy constra...Cowpoke @ 1:00am "Neocons knew energy constraints were on the horizon."<BR/><BR/>Um, not just neocons. Everyone knows about PO, including those who are ready & willing to fight over scarce resources. Make no mistake about it, Iraq was all about blood for oil. Deal with it.<BR/><BR/>In future generations, monuments will be built honoring Bush for having the foresight to enable the USAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-8049066085385736732009-02-04T10:14:00.000-05:002009-02-04T10:14:00.000-05:00As usual, terrificly well put, Stoneleigh. Thanks ...As usual, terrificly well put, Stoneleigh. Thanks for your analysis (again!) of the energy/finance connection. <BR/><BR/>I too have to add my hope that commentators will exercise some civility and restraint (and that includes me, yes). We all get angry or frustrated from time to time , but if we want to keep discussing these matters day after day, month after month, we all have a small Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15614205920972531674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-44625740518654525662009-02-04T10:01:00.000-05:002009-02-04T10:01:00.000-05:00The comments section of this site has become quite...<I>The comments section of this site has become quite adversarial lately, and I do not mean that in a good way.<BR/><BR/>The frank and open exchange of ideas here is wonderful, the pointless attacks and ad hominem distractions are not.</I><BR/><BR/>I would second the request to avoid ad hominems, and for posters to be respectful of each other. Being passionate about issues is a good thing, but Stoneleighhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15099878430757036461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-64572279797470138932009-02-04T09:52:00.000-05:002009-02-04T09:52:00.000-05:00Here's my take on the intersection of peak oil and...Here's my take on the intersection of peak oil and finance, ironically from The Oil Drum (<A HREF="http://www.theoildrum.com/node/3391#comment-278369" REL="nofollow">December 16th 2007</A>, therefore written before demand collapse had begun). There were many interesting points in the discussion on that thread.<BR/><BR/>Nate Hagens: <I>Still, as Stoneleigh mentioned to me, Peak Oil and the credit Stoneleighhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15099878430757036461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-41381585374918102152009-02-04T09:37:00.000-05:002009-02-04T09:37:00.000-05:00The comments section of this site has become quite...The comments section of this site has become quite adversarial lately, and I do not mean that in a good way. <BR/><BR/>The frank and open exchange of ideas here is wonderful, the pointless attacks and ad hominem distractions are not.<BR/><BR/>If Stoneleigh and Ilargi are correct about our likely futures, can we really afford to waste our time in this fashion ? We are simply descending to the Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-31246175434403562712009-02-04T09:33:00.000-05:002009-02-04T09:33:00.000-05:00Come on posters - let's maintain some degree of ci...Come on posters - let's maintain some degree of civility here. It's easy to rattle off nasty, biting remarks when writing and you don't have to see the other person face-to-face, but it doesn't do any good to impugn one anothers' motives when they post their opinions on a blog. <BR/><BR/>There are plenty of opinions and beliefs posted here that I disagree with, but I still give the person who EBrownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02894676347259218501noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-32022836957796890392009-02-04T09:31:00.000-05:002009-02-04T09:31:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.EBrownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02894676347259218501noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-60433731755774071592009-02-04T09:24:00.000-05:002009-02-04T09:24:00.000-05:00Re: the intersection of PO and the economic debacl...Re: the intersection of PO and the economic debacle<BR/><BR/>I find the broad explanation given by Nate at TOD of how resource constraints "caused" the bubble(s), and may have had something to do with the precipitation of the crash, to be persuasive. The problem is, the causation is essentially unprovable, and thus, really has little utility. I do have to agree that bubbles and subsequent crashesChaoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14511045883879753073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-43146228626895361472009-02-04T06:09:00.000-05:002009-02-04T06:09:00.000-05:00@Orion"@Ahimsa, from yesterday: Wow, A verbal viol...@Orion<BR/><BR/>"@Ahimsa, from yesterday: Wow, A verbal violence freak. You are one sad, sick puppy.<BR/><BR/>Apparently you're still smarting from the last time I shut you up.<BR/><BR/>I'll give you credit for consistancy though. You always show up after Stoneleigh does, waving your Pom-Poms, with nothing to say but "Go Team".<BR/><BR/>The great white hunter. Every blog needs an official scumbagel gallinazohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00642036843036726232noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-51813786193258287192009-02-04T05:43:00.000-05:002009-02-04T05:43:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.el gallinazohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00642036843036726232noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-81884667689313067942009-02-04T04:31:00.000-05:002009-02-04T04:31:00.000-05:00What are your thoughts on this:http://www.bbc.co.u...What are your thoughts on this:<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/stephanieflanders/" REL="nofollow">http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/stephanieflanders/</A><BR/><BR/>?<BR/><BR/>Seems a very gushing blog towards Friedman + Bernanke...Rewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00854449210806698173noreply@blogger.com