tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post8628040787187193169..comments2024-02-28T22:03:57.237-05:00Comments on The Automatic Earth: June 7 2009: It won't stop where you would like it toIlargihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09698428009501267664noreply@blogger.comBlogger81125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-84157109390143175002009-08-12T05:12:33.015-04:002009-08-12T05:12:33.015-04:00You have a great website and are indeed a bright m...You have a great website and are indeed a bright man. Sparks were flying over your nationalized healthcare post a day or two ago. What a heated issue! Here is what Patrick at Patrick.net has to say:<br />http://patrick.net/forum/?p=16667<br />Quite opinionated! I am in the wingnut camp but must admit, have a good private provider left me from my retirement and in fairly good health.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-50817726193668732182009-06-09T18:21:07.826-04:002009-06-09T18:21:07.826-04:00I agree that housing recovery is not fast. The job...I agree that housing recovery is not fast. The job losses will make it worse. The government efforts are not enough as well.<br /><br />This is very interesting article I read on it.<br />http://www.housingnewslive.com/is-the-housing-market-recovering.php<br /><br /><a href="http://www.housingnewslive.com/is-the-housing-market-recovering.php" rel="nofollow">Is housing market improving</a><br /><Housing Newshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12292829221590901320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-51645558257019204112009-06-08T23:41:54.524-04:002009-06-08T23:41:54.524-04:00David,
You are not the first jerk to visit this s...David,<br /><br />You are not the first jerk to visit this site, nor the cleverest, nastiest, or even the most amusing.<br /><br />You are simply a jerk.<br /><br />Hey, if you're fine with that then great.D. Benton Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09505763959328162067noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-2334631463367072982009-06-08T21:30:27.293-04:002009-06-08T21:30:27.293-04:00This commentary section,
And the the commentors,
...This commentary section,<br /><br />And the the commentors,<br /><br />gets progressively more <br /><br />Wacko by the day.<br /><br />BUT, that's a GOOD thing!<br /><br />Wacko is VERY entertaining!!<br /><br />Keep it up, Everybody! Your contributions maintain the Whackability quotient of TAE!!<br /><br />The More the Merrier!!<br /><br />D.Ventriloquisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17710882943614273994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-36058638680824574872009-06-08T20:56:47.654-04:002009-06-08T20:56:47.654-04:00New post upNew post upIlargihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09698428009501267664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-52573098069173559512009-06-08T20:33:47.300-04:002009-06-08T20:33:47.300-04:00Old bird:
Could you please stop referring to the ...Old bird:<br /><br />Could you please stop referring to the Economics Nobel as the "Psuedo Nobel"?<br /><br />The proper name is "The Bank of Sweden .. Nobel...".<br /><br />You can shorten it to "The B.S. Nobel".<br /><br />Doing otherwise is disrespectful, and we simply can't have that, now. So please, do use the proper term, and show the winners the Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-13841806116966805412009-06-08T20:17:47.937-04:002009-06-08T20:17:47.937-04:00VK
I love to listen to Michael Hudson's analy...VK<br /><br />I love to listen to Michael Hudson's analyses. He refers to the financial sector of the economy as parasites that do nothing useful. But part of being a successful parasite is convincing your host that you are necessary to its survival.<br /><br />So paying down debt is simply feeding the parasite. It also reduces the money/credit supply. It would also be diverting wealth el gallinazohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00642036843036726232noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-76417837603166711992009-06-08T20:09:21.754-04:002009-06-08T20:09:21.754-04:00Thanks for the previous two comments. They (along ...Thanks for the previous two comments. They (along with other comments today) explain well why the home price vs. trend line graph will have a big undershoot. People I know (including me) just don't want to believe this but it appears inevitable.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-54643507632022753022009-06-08T19:27:49.810-04:002009-06-08T19:27:49.810-04:00Brian M. Wrote:
"Also cash to pay the mortgag...Brian M. Wrote:<br />"Also cash to pay the mortgage IS paying down debt). As the deliquencies rise, the govt will probably allow debt collection folk to employ greater and greater penalties."<br /><br />Paying down a mortgage by making the monthly payments is no different then making the mininum payment on a credt card. Both take about 30 years to pay off. Paying down debt would be Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-35247071756467057002009-06-08T18:08:00.552-04:002009-06-08T18:08:00.552-04:00Anon 1:40
I was talking about the mathematical p...Anon 1:40 <br /><br />I was talking about the mathematical properties of debt.<br /><br />The more debt you pay down the more expensive it is so service, that is why stoneleigh recommends having no debt. If people pay down debt as they are so far in this depression (those who can), what happens is that the money they are using to pay down their debts is being diverted from the productive part of VKnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-42482421960285090672009-06-08T17:18:28.567-04:002009-06-08T17:18:28.567-04:00The knee-breaking debt collectors WILL get into tu...The knee-breaking debt collectors WILL get into tussles with those who have nothing more to lose. Bet on it. Now, who will get organized about it first and best, the debt collectors or the desperate? If a knee-breaker gets killed, there is alway another desperate person willing to take the knee-breaker's job. . . The squeeze exists at many levels at once.<br /><br />Seems to me that BP Mortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15531863521357661468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-83454450102677369672009-06-08T16:43:07.121-04:002009-06-08T16:43:07.121-04:00The present system is dead, which is precisely why...The present system is dead, which is precisely why I see stuff like debtors' prisons (and the elimination of those seen as "useless eaters", such as myself) in our (very near!) future.<br /><br />Face it: With the present system dead, the ruling authority (present or near-future) <i>cannot afford</i> to have 305,000,000 legals running around. Not physically possible -- not Starcadehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09226367306835781483noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-4029204223853477702009-06-08T16:33:37.158-04:002009-06-08T16:33:37.158-04:00If things get as bad as many on this list claim th...If things get as bad as many on this list claim they will, then many people can look forward to watching helplessly as their loved ones expire from lack of medical care, starvation, violence, etc.<br /><br />At that point, fear not for the debt-burdened, and watch as the "knee breakring" debt collectors get cut down to size by those who really have nothing more to lose in life.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-3418085451859303942009-06-08T16:19:58.772-04:002009-06-08T16:19:58.772-04:00I have a question. If real estate values collapse...I have a question. If real estate values collapse to 10 to 15% of the original value, who will be able to buy these assets? <br /><br />Am I correct in assuming that this devaluation will be in conjunction with;<br /><br />- massive unemployment?<br />- correspondingly high default rates?<br /><br />The banks can say they own these properties, but who will they sell them to?<br /><br />And whatAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-37810711497288120822009-06-08T15:21:38.176-04:002009-06-08T15:21:38.176-04:00Mugabe's "concentric morality" syste...Mugabe's "concentric morality" system seems quite plausible to me, for many parts of the US. But I don't think we'll get a fresh start, even if the system breaks down. <br /><br />When a system breaks down and you re-boot you get a kind of "half-fresh start." Some things start over and some things don't. Some symbols of the old system get torn down, in Brian M.http://selfreferentialcollapse.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-10483342346506117972009-06-08T15:05:43.056-04:002009-06-08T15:05:43.056-04:00Anon 2:14
The System is Dead! Long Live the Syst...Anon 2:14<br /><br />The System is Dead! Long Live the System! - or welcome to the new normal. (And 5 years later, welcome to the new, new normal, and so on, with perhaps some stability in the 2020s.)<br /><br />The end of one "system" is always the birthpangs of the next, with plenty of interested parties watching to make the system for the next cycle of history as favorable to them Brian M.http://selfreferentialcollapse.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-30356521296484542392009-06-08T14:44:28.489-04:002009-06-08T14:44:28.489-04:00Anon @2:14,
If you have a darker, more pessimisti...Anon @2:14,<br /><br /><i>If you have a darker, more pessimistic view of humans, based on our past history, I can see why debtor prisons and indentured servitude might make their way into your prognostication.</i><br /><br />My view of collective (as opposed to individual) human behaviour depends on the times. We have lived through a great upswing in social mood - a time of relative optimism, Stoneleighhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15099878430757036461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-66081290830251865092009-06-08T14:28:28.568-04:002009-06-08T14:28:28.568-04:00I agree with Anon of 12:00, and have made similar ...I agree with Anon of 12:00, and have made similar arguments before, disagreeing with I&S about the way the worst case scenario would unfold. In the worst case, I would venture that populism will prevail, and the current financial system, with all its debts, will be simply left in the ditch. We would have a fresh start.<br /><br />The banksters look like they are all powerful, pulling all Mugabenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-24223302666529947472009-06-08T14:22:26.547-04:002009-06-08T14:22:26.547-04:00Anon 1:40
People are both increasing savings AND ...Anon 1:40<br /><br />People are both increasing savings AND paying down debt. I am still doing both, and I'm not alone. Now US-folk may be doing more increasing savings than paying down debt (I'd bet not), and certainly other debt-reduction strategies like bankrupcy and exercising jingle-mail options etc. are probably all part of the debt reduction model. But paying-off is still Brian M.http://selfreferentialcollapse.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-92142352564978076252009-06-08T14:17:16.212-04:002009-06-08T14:17:16.212-04:00D. Benton Smith,
Thank you for sharing the story ...D. Benton Smith,<br /><br />Thank you for sharing the story of the flood. <br /><br />Yes, get ready to work harder than you ever had is right. We sold out of the city and moved to a farm on the prairie. It is never ending work and we are always behind. The learning curve is steep and we make lots of mistakes.<br /><br />And it is depressing sometime. I read a study that women on organic andLeonanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-50227938551099196262009-06-08T14:14:31.540-04:002009-06-08T14:14:31.540-04:00Thanks Brian M. for the thoughful reply.
My point...Thanks Brian M. for the thoughful reply.<br /><br />My point about the government assuming the debts- especially in the case of F&F- is that this would be a cash cow. They would assume debts that failed banks lost. They could still make sure that these debts are paid, but as you point out- for pennies on the dollar. Even in this scenario, the government still makes a shit load of money Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-46922295371622767492009-06-08T13:56:37.963-04:002009-06-08T13:56:37.963-04:00Why think the bankers have blown their load in ter...Why think the bankers have blown their load in terms of bailouts? The next round may simply need to be more carefully disguised or circuitous than the last few. OK the AIG backdoor is being watched. Why not use Freddie and Fannie to pump value discreetly over to the banksters? OK if that game ends, maybe they'll need a new channel to funnel taxpayer money to the bankers while shifting Brian M.http://selfreferentialcollapse.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-78728316372130127752009-06-08T13:50:25.326-04:002009-06-08T13:50:25.326-04:00@Stoneleigh
"The closer to your chest you ca...@Stoneleigh<br /><br />"The closer to your chest you can keep what you have, the better your chances of hanging on to it will be."<br /><br />Does this mean that women should stuff their hundreds in their bras. Will be quite a rush on the Dolly Parton model.el gallinazohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00642036843036726232noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-53165239014216059282009-06-08T13:40:33.382-04:002009-06-08T13:40:33.382-04:00VK wrote:
"As people rush to pay back their d...VK wrote:<br />"As people rush to pay back their debt, fearing that their debt burden will crush them, we face a paradox, the more people pay down their debt, the harder it becomes for everyone else to pay down their debt."<br /><br />This is very unlikely. People can and will declare Bankrupcy. People are paying down debt because the want to keep there lines of credit available for Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-89398111295197392412009-06-08T13:21:32.212-04:002009-06-08T13:21:32.212-04:00Stoneleigh said: "The system we have lived un...Stoneleigh said: "The system we have lived under is crashing and burning, but that doesn't mean a different (and more ruthlessly exploitative) system cannot take its place."<br /><br />But that also doesn't mean a different (and more human) system cannot take its place.<br /><br />If the banks that service these debts continue to unravel, who will service them? The government?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com