tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post8741717954986144099..comments2024-02-28T22:03:57.237-05:00Comments on The Automatic Earth: December 6 2010: Our Daily Bread, or Not, As the Case May Be...Ilargihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09698428009501267664noreply@blogger.comBlogger208125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-86169807516455302112010-12-31T00:39:04.930-05:002010-12-31T00:39:04.930-05:00Stoneleigh,
It is hard to comment on this because...Stoneleigh,<br /><br />It is hard to comment on this because it is hard for me to tell what your position is or what your diet is. Could you be more specific? <br /><br />1. If you consume an Atkins diet but with more vegetables and not quite so much meat, then it sounds like you could be eating a standard American (Canadian?) diet minus the refined carbohydrates. In that case your article is Keith Akershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03488611629291882615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-57535231203864748902010-12-16T20:07:05.166-05:002010-12-16T20:07:05.166-05:00I try to be as much of a "locavore" as p...I try to be as much of a "locavore" as possible, and it helps living in the Pacific Northwest where on the coast the winters are mild. One of your commenters mentioned Art DeVany, who is someone I greatly respect. His views on exercise are particularly good. Everything he writes about is well founded in research as well as his own experience (and common sense). He just published a bookDavid Lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14808424281870275672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-19174695746128200312010-12-14T15:58:46.365-05:002010-12-14T15:58:46.365-05:00@ Eaarthly Planner
You say that it is "debat...@ Eaarthly Planner<br /><br />You say that it is "debatable" that 60-90% of our calories were at one point derived from meat. <br />How is this debatable? What would you "debate" sustained us before we were farmers? Of course it was meat! Especially in the winter months, bereft of stuff to "gather", did we just eat snow? I challenge you to cite anything by anybody tychohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15393366180541152361noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-62750199043168369192010-12-14T15:58:08.610-05:002010-12-14T15:58:08.610-05:00I realize the discussion has moved on, however sin...I realize the discussion has moved on, however since these posts are archived, I will leave this for the consideration of future readers.<br /><br />@ Eaarthy Planner<br /><br />First off I want to point out that both of the studies you cited are "observational" with data being collected via questionnaires ("Women in the study who SAID that they ate..."; "Women who tychohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15393366180541152361noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-19928544494652095122010-12-09T14:25:35.130-05:002010-12-09T14:25:35.130-05:00@ Ahimsa - nice to see you are thriving. I think y...@ Ahimsa - nice to see you are thriving. I think you might find the work of Bart Hoebel at Princeton interesting. He has demonstrated that sugar can be truly addictive.Dr Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01578932342600399932noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-72404820192521754212010-12-09T12:54:16.126-05:002010-12-09T12:54:16.126-05:00@ logout - to a large extent, normal values are de...@ logout - to a large extent, normal values are determined by population data. Sometimes this is influenced by other data on the incidence of pathology associated with a value. Blood pressure is a good example as the upper limits or normal are set based on what is known about the risks of harm associated with higher values. <br /><br />In the case of sodium, I suspect that both are considered in Dr Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01578932342600399932noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-76234538591702103772010-12-09T12:49:38.453-05:002010-12-09T12:49:38.453-05:00Re metabolic disorders due to morbid obesity and e...Re metabolic disorders due to morbid obesity and excessive consumption of simple carbohydrates<br /><br />I seldom hear people discuss the prevalence of addictiveness to simple carbohydrates via frequent snacking on junk foods and soda. <br /> <br />The vast majority of people in our culture don't connect the dots between what one eats daily and one's health. They are brainwashed by the Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-28887797428803659932010-12-09T12:48:40.977-05:002010-12-09T12:48:40.977-05:00@ An Eaarthly Planner - the question of whether re...@ An Eaarthly Planner - the question of whether red meat consumption is uniquely harmful is still debated in scientific circles. Neither of the two studies you linked give a definitive answer, unfortunately. Both are observational which means you cannot make conclusions about causality. Neither reported all-causee mortality which means that heart attacks may have decreased (a good thing) but moreDr Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01578932342600399932noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-72221429362794768722010-12-09T12:00:42.571-05:002010-12-09T12:00:42.571-05:00News post up.
War is the Health of the State
...News post up.<br /><br /><br /><br /><a href="http://theautomaticearth.blogspot.com/2010/12/december-9-2010-war-is-health-of-state.html" rel="nofollow"><b>War is the Health of the State</b></a><br /><br /><br /><br />.Ilargihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09698428009501267664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-43385328561712820762010-12-09T11:38:00.548-05:002010-12-09T11:38:00.548-05:00@Dan,
This paper suggests addiction is the resul...@Dan,<br /><br /><br /><a href="http://www.cfdp.ca/roots.pdf" rel="nofollow">This paper</a> suggests addiction is the result of dislocation.<br /><br />The topic of this paper is drug addiction, but I spoke to the author and he feels consumerism is the same mechanism. That is discussed in a book, though I am not sure when it was/will be published.Rubenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08391623908501295326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-73093534509507416292010-12-09T11:31:03.036-05:002010-12-09T11:31:03.036-05:00@ Bluebird 11.17.
Indeed.
Z.@ Bluebird 11.17.<br /><br />Indeed.<br /><br />Z.zanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15352619368764868819noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-34276258008175981212010-12-09T11:28:48.222-05:002010-12-09T11:28:48.222-05:00@ IMN 10.49.
FWIW, all the oldies I know who are ...@ IMN 10.49.<br /><br />FWIW, all the oldies I know who are healthy and xtra long lived have two common factors, they lived through periods of extreme food shortage, even malnutrition lite, and worked physically.<br />To a person, they still eat little today, but eat all sorts minus junk food, or lots of it. I'm going with them myself, my eyes don't lie and one could debate diet forever zanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15352619368764868819noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-87576382026222205612010-12-09T11:25:24.604-05:002010-12-09T11:25:24.604-05:00You can read about Joel Salatin,his grass based ag...You can read about Joel Salatin,his grass based agriculture and his wonderfully radical ideas about food production in Michael Pollan's Omnivor's Dilemma. Joel is currently on a speaking tour in Australia. ABC has a video available of a very recent talk he gave on the politics of food. <br />http://tinyurl.com/29gybcxEric Liliushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05856745528020599736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-91441313805870388672010-12-09T11:17:21.685-05:002010-12-09T11:17:21.685-05:00I M Nobody - Basically that is what I am referring...I M Nobody - Basically that is what I am referring to, that the amount and choice of food can be very limited. Sometimes all this discussion about eating healthy, farming, carbs vs fat, vegan vs meat, etc. etc., it really doesn't make much difference when that time comes, because people will eat whatever is there, healthy food or not, meat or veggie, or not. The food may not be their bluebirdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09600634086150466162noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-27659722240029820552010-12-09T11:01:24.483-05:002010-12-09T11:01:24.483-05:00Dr. J youR mention of Hyponatremia made me go to W...Dr. J youR mention of Hyponatremia made me go to Wiki for this:<br /><br /> "<i>Normal serum sodium levels are between 135-145 mEq/L. Hyponatremia is defined as a serum level of less than 135 mEq/L and is considered severe when the serum level is below 125 mEq/L.[1]</i>"<br /><br />What I have often wondered about is how are these figures for NORMAL sodium established? Is this reached trojanhorsehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09588557877904395571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-77685825700002110922010-12-09T10:49:54.192-05:002010-12-09T10:49:54.192-05:00bluebird,
The video that p01 linked earlier refer...bluebird,<br /><br />The video that p01 linked earlier referenced a more complete set of videos of the interview of Dr. Connelly. I eventually found them.<br /><br />He points out that humans can survive for quite long periods on very little food. He speaks of a concentration camp survivor he knew that had lived through four years in a camp and survived emaciation. Yes, that is still a very ugly Phlogiston Água de Beberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16269917130349144430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-69505895591410264352010-12-09T10:47:06.527-05:002010-12-09T10:47:06.527-05:00@ Bluebird and Stoneleigh
Hi.
2 thoughts:
1. Th...@ Bluebird and Stoneleigh<br /><br />Hi.<br /><br />2 thoughts:<br /><br />1. There are all manner of localvore food movements in Vermont and New Hampshire. There is a lot of energy being put into sustaining a healthy, available food supply.<br /><br />http://uvlocalvore.com/<br /><br />2. Stoneleigh, you mentioned the addictive nature of refined sugars. No doubt. I would take the issue a step Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02629934080871994373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-41195767667061689692010-12-09T10:29:19.044-05:002010-12-09T10:29:19.044-05:00When the tipping point comes. I think most people ...When the tipping point comes. I think most people will be shocked and bewildered such as happens in any major disaster, be it a hurricane, blizzard, tornado, flood. But most people generally pitch in and help everyone else, at least at first. It's just that all this discussion about healthy eating, farming, resiliency, what difference is it going to make when reality sets in for everyone. As bluebirdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09600634086150466162noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-25583237280103116012010-12-09T09:56:03.041-05:002010-12-09T09:56:03.041-05:00p01, thanks for posting the link to the China Stud...p01, thanks for posting the link to the China Study critique. I've had my suspicions about this study myself based on my limited education in science and nutrition.<br /><br />*Humans have evolved an enzyme for digesting elastin, a substance found only in animals.<br />*Human nutritional needs are difficult to satisfy without some meat.<br />*Human dentition is adapted for eating meat.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-59642283486359511582010-12-09T09:28:31.504-05:002010-12-09T09:28:31.504-05:00How it was usually done:
Hogs for meat and fat: st...How it was usually done:<br />Hogs for meat and fat: stored as sausages, smoked chunks. Almost all village families would have one. Chickens and ducks/geese for eggs and the occasional soup+roast. Richer families would have a cow for milk whose calories are stored as cheese usually. Sun-dried vegetables and tobacco. A grapevine grown areund the house usually would be stored as dried grapes and p01https://www.blogger.com/profile/04396562841580952642noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-34367970345216989032010-12-09T09:04:48.760-05:002010-12-09T09:04:48.760-05:00@tycho said:
the idea that the ill-effects of the...@tycho said:<br /><br /><i>the idea that the ill-effects of the Standard American Diet are due to the "...unbelievably huge increase in the consumption of animal products in the last few decades." flies in the face of all logic</i><br /><br />That is a rather bold statement, especially since <a href="http://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/news/20100816/red-meat-raises-heart-attack-risk" relTonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06814789401495389609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-12569734467886793522010-12-09T06:22:11.969-05:002010-12-09T06:22:11.969-05:00Tycho - A very interesting post, including some of...Tycho - A very interesting post, including some of my recent (ever-changing) thoughts on diet--with an honest historical perspective.<br />Sometimes what we learn or discover about ourselves is not what we were looking for.Hombrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12930734368916487826noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-74194982799980727422010-12-09T02:11:15.278-05:002010-12-09T02:11:15.278-05:00@ I. M. Nobody
Mention of factory farms is a red ...@ I. M. Nobody<br /><br /><i>Mention of factory farms is a red herring though</i><br /><br />Perhaps I wasn't clear, but I wasn't advocating factory farms. Far from it - they produce meat at huge environmental and energetic costs (not to mention animal suffering). They may be one of the first casualties when industrial ag collapses.<br /><br />You said: <i>Paul's portrait of hardy A Fall Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08646030011686964723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-73441540419928426482010-12-09T01:09:19.071-05:002010-12-09T01:09:19.071-05:00A Fall Guy,
Your latest comment is much more elab...A Fall Guy,<br /><br />Your latest comment is much more elaborated than the first. I see you do have a pretty good measure of the likely futures. Mention of factory farms is a red herring though. They will have no place in an energy starved future. Yet another bad investment.<br /><br />Paul's portrait of hardy villagers raising stock and vegetables will have to be the way it is done. With Phlogiston Água de Beberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16269917130349144430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-40973664328645629712010-12-09T00:41:32.243-05:002010-12-09T00:41:32.243-05:00@ I. M. Nobody
Future reality is very likely to b...@ I. M. Nobody<br /><br /><i>Future reality is very likely to be not quite what you seem to imagine.</i><br /><br />In all due respect, future reality is very unlikely to be what any of us imagine.<br /><br />I didn't say I imagine an easy ride. I did say we can expect collapse and instability of many systems, including climate. Nor did I say we shouldn't raise livestock. In fact, I haveA Fall Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08646030011686964723noreply@blogger.com