tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post7776355377143924803..comments2024-02-28T22:03:57.237-05:00Comments on The Automatic Earth: Debt Rattle, October 3 2008: Permanent EmergencyIlargihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09698428009501267664noreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-80508112047385908882008-10-05T20:50:00.000-04:002008-10-05T20:50:00.000-04:00I was just reading the Helicopter Ben speech where...I was just reading the <A HREF="http://www.federalreserve.gov/BOARDDOCS/SPEECHES/2002/20021121/default.htm" REL="nofollow">Helicopter Ben</A> speech where Bernanke displays his deflation-fighting chops. BTW, I didn't know that the whole helicopter metaphor was Friedman's. Anyway - and I can't believe I'm saying this - it's an interesting read; not only for providing a snapshot of all the tools Farmerodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03492165772535123915noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-64952867940443275242008-10-05T10:47:00.000-04:002008-10-05T10:47:00.000-04:00Great post - !!I am not convinced that we will hav...Great post - !!<BR/><BR/>I am not convinced that we will have elections this year.Roccmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13941353492023923157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-38025881986453697482008-10-04T15:00:00.000-04:002008-10-04T15:00:00.000-04:00Crystalradio,Alan Weisman's book "The World Withou...Crystalradio,<BR/><BR/>Alan Weisman's book "The World Without Us" comes to mind. A likely prospect for sure.<BR/><BR/>Decadent sociopolitical structures will not alleviate the suffering of sentient beings nor contribute to their survival.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-49975344738217236462008-10-04T13:57:00.000-04:002008-10-04T13:57:00.000-04:00Hi Ahimsa,Forgot to thank you for being so direct ...Hi Ahimsa,<BR/><BR/>Forgot to thank you for being so direct in your comment to me the other day, it is so much more constructive than the sniping from the bushes one can see.<BR/><BR/>That said, you are likely right here:<BR/><BR/><I>Most likely survival will come to a few via the initiative of individuals and local communities.</I><BR/><BR/>but to add to that, survival is not the only concern. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-15277696937968930112008-10-04T13:25:00.000-04:002008-10-04T13:25:00.000-04:00I think it is too late to transform Western imperi...I think it is too late to transform Western imperial and fascist predatory capitalism/govt. (now exported worldwide to one degree or another) into an altruistic system. Indeed, the time for reforms, if it ever existed, has expired.<BR/><BR/>The corrupt elites and governments of the world, especially the Western world led by the US Empire, have already decided that the way to face current and Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-12295154244130767492008-10-04T12:43:00.000-04:002008-10-04T12:43:00.000-04:00Dr. Lowe said:As far as I am concerned, Darwin's t...Dr. Lowe said:<BR/><BR/><I>As far as I am concerned, Darwin's thesis still holds. </I><BR/><BR/>As there are various interpretations of 'Darwin's thesis', just so I don't misunderstand your point of view would you mind giving your definition? Thanks.<BR/><BR/><BR/>ebrown, thanks for all the Tainter laced commentary, I quite agree, all I am trying to say is that if one is going to be raped one Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-69667908623482477332008-10-04T12:14:00.000-04:002008-10-04T12:14:00.000-04:00Joseph Tainter's work on the collapse of complexit...Joseph Tainter's work on the collapse of complexity came to mind as I read these comments. His four bullet points for explaining collapse are:<BR/>"<BR/>1. Human societies are problem-solving organizations;<BR/>2. Sociopolitical systems require energy for their maintenance;<BR/>3. Increased complexity carries with it increased costs per capita; and<BR/>4. Investment in sociopolitical complexity EBrownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02894676347259218501noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-44389531773581057282008-10-04T11:39:00.000-04:002008-10-04T11:39:00.000-04:00Stoneleigh:"...so long as people understand that i...Stoneleigh:<BR/>"...so long as people understand that it only works at a very local level where everyone knows what everyone else is doing."<BR/><BR/> A vital observation. One that zealots of all persuasions need to understand: ideology does not <I>scale</I>. <BR/><BR/> Zealots might also understand that there are error bars on all human projects. Black Markets abound in command economies, The Lizardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12044779666881689690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-15128792593949013102008-10-04T11:06:00.000-04:002008-10-04T11:06:00.000-04:00I want to thank Stoneleigh for making the usual cr...I want to thank Stoneleigh for making the usual critical contributions. I also believe that as this current system unwinds the mountain of debt, the local will become much more significant in all of out lives (as opposed to the national or global corporate/financial system).<BR/><BR/>Sure ... a lot of people will lose big-time (essentially flame out), populations are certainly set to decline, Dr. Lowehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16840932925322700430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-80597510612103103022008-10-04T10:38:00.000-04:002008-10-04T10:38:00.000-04:00Stoneleigh said:Humans are social creatures and be...Stoneleigh said:<BR/><BR/><I>Humans are social creatures and benefit most from social solutions. There's a lot to be said for "from each according to his abilities and from each according to his needs", so long as people understand that it only works at a very local level where everyone knows what everyone else is doing. Since it doesn't scale up, it makes a terrible state ideology.</I><BR/><BR/>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-62213513940220187402008-10-04T09:59:00.000-04:002008-10-04T09:59:00.000-04:00I have watched the Martenson Crash Course videos. ...I have watched the Martenson Crash Course videos. I thought they were good in that he explains how this monster credit bubble has been created, and that all bubbles burst. So many people are still in denial, that I have been sending the Crash Course to all my family and friends, so they can get a feeling about the bubble bursting.<BR/><BR/>I don't agree with his hyper-inflation either, but bluebirdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09600634086150466162noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-47868930381090160392008-10-04T09:46:00.000-04:002008-10-04T09:46:00.000-04:00Okay, so I'm on the 10th chapter of this "Crash Co...Okay, so I'm on the 10th chapter of this "Crash Course" video called Inflation and the author of the video just posited that debt creation by the Federal Reserve can only end in Hyperinflation, not massive deflation. It's amazing to see how even though he recognizes inflation as a reflection of money supply, he still concludes that all the dollars in existence will lose their value because of Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-36113114699396584262008-10-04T09:13:00.000-04:002008-10-04T09:13:00.000-04:0050% of all human consumed protein can be traced ba...50% of all human consumed protein can be traced back to ammonia created using the Haber Bosch process, most often fed by natural gas, now occasionally done with coal or petroleum coke. A large portion of the other 50% comes from the sea.<BR/><BR/> Ammonia plants world wide are closing due to financial concerns and in some cases natural gas depletion. Farmers are being priced out of the gas .https://www.blogger.com/profile/03915219261001181341noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-64263732426895420852008-10-04T08:55:00.000-04:002008-10-04T08:55:00.000-04:00I don't know who Chris Martenson is but he has mad...I don't know who Chris Martenson is but he has made an excellent video series on why the next 20 years will be substantially different than the previous 20.<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.chrismartenson.com/crashcourse" REL="nofollow">Crash Course </A><BR/><BR/>He focuses on the three E's : Economy, Energy, and Environment to give an overview of the impeding catastrophe. I'm not through watching Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-56195065555376078112008-10-04T06:51:00.000-04:002008-10-04T06:51:00.000-04:00Starcade,We don't have a solution for the system i...Starcade,<BR/><BR/>We don't have a solution for the system in its current form, any more than anyone else does. No such solution exists. Once a massive credit bubble reaches maximum expansion, it must deflate, and it will no matter what anyone tries to do about it. Governments can, of course, aggravate the impacts along the way, which I fully expect them to do, and to a far greater extent than Stoneleighhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15099878430757036461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-4710234996253145792008-10-04T02:43:00.000-04:002008-10-04T02:43:00.000-04:00outtacontrol: It's almost certainly self-dealing ...outtacontrol: It's almost certainly self-dealing to try to keep some semblance of a market going -- for, when it goes, everything else does, and rather quickly.<BR/><BR/>Anonymous (post 4): You do realize that Congress is acting with a gun to its head -- in fact, some were openly threatened with military Martial Law earlier this week. Sounds like the threat might be right. My opinion has beenStarcadehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09226367306835781483noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-69947307145449766282008-10-04T02:37:00.000-04:002008-10-04T02:37:00.000-04:00Martial Law -- and damned soon -- is the only resu...Martial Law -- and damned soon -- is the only result of this madness. As Anonymous (1st post) said: $700,000,000,000,000.<BR/><BR/>I mean, really now -- how much longer do we really have?? A week? Maybe a month, two, or three? Certainly not through the winter, once people are literally frozen out and killed.<BR/><BR/>I'd be interested as to whether Ilargi has a solution, or whether he Starcadehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09226367306835781483noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-61669758780699324952008-10-04T02:27:00.000-04:002008-10-04T02:27:00.000-04:00Stoneleigh, Yes, and our food and transportation s...Stoneleigh,<BR/><BR/> Yes, and our food and transportation systems are immensely more fragile and complicated than they once were. <BR/><BR/> I have never understood why so many people are dismissive of the re-localization movement. I know it is unlikely that many areas will be able to supply <I>all</I> of their own needs, but even a little self sufficiency would take some strain away from an Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-55770979349447224982008-10-04T00:46:00.000-04:002008-10-04T00:46:00.000-04:00In order to provide food for family and community ...In order to provide food for family and community in the future, I've become a fan of hydroponics because of it's high yields in limited space. It also uses less water, less labor, and fewer nutrients than soil gardening--and also provides excellent nutrient control so that plants get precisely (and only) what they need. Many associate hydroponics with high intensity electrical input, but this Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-33290927847169615182008-10-04T00:26:00.000-04:002008-10-04T00:26:00.000-04:00Cygnus,I would also add that the population of the...Cygnus,<BR/><BR/>I would also add that the population of the rich world has far higher expectations, is far more dependent on centralized life-support systems, and has far fewer useful skills than they did the last time. Very few have any control at all over any of the essentials of their own existence.Stoneleighhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15099878430757036461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-91256320573056779392008-10-04T00:13:00.000-04:002008-10-04T00:13:00.000-04:00Yes, Ilargi, I think I am getting the picture. Fu...Yes, Ilargi, I think I am getting the picture. <BR/><BR/>Funny you should mention population levels. Earlier today on a whim I looked up what the world population was in 1930. It was right around 2 billion. Less than a third of what it is now. <BR/><BR/>We're most likely about to have another world-wide Depression. Massive financial contraction. Widespread infrastructure and supply chain Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-62347082269864002142008-10-04T00:06:00.000-04:002008-10-04T00:06:00.000-04:00Thank you Stoneleigh,Not that I understand as well...Thank you Stoneleigh,<BR/><BR/><BR/>Not that I understand as well as you, but I understand that flow. Perhaps Europe is about to take center stage, could this be a game of pong now or more like "hot potato", here catch, but don't drop it. As long as they can keep it aloft and the potato is hot, then the game works. When everyone gets hungry, who will be the first to try to eat.<BR/><BR/>Gnightbicycle mechanichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17008971495294158347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-9303799214692058462008-10-03T23:35:00.000-04:002008-10-03T23:35:00.000-04:00Is epic tragedy reduced to inanity by unworthy act...Is epic tragedy reduced to inanity by unworthy actors?<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVUR174d2Hw" REL="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVUR174d2Hw</A><BR/><BR/>The party-pandas' resemblance to our Wall Street titans and Congressional leadership is uncanny, and dispiriting. But two exceptional pandas give a fine performance at 1:03.<BR/><BR/>"Very well. Come Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-64820337856254458052008-10-03T23:26:00.000-04:002008-10-03T23:26:00.000-04:00BTW unless I got it wrong I think when it collapse...BTW unless I got it wrong I think when it collapsed the USSR was experiencing <A HREF="http://www.energybulletin.net/node/23259" REL="nofollow">hyperinflation</A>, but from that article above they seem to have had little debt as well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4921988708619968880.post-2761862933293971482008-10-03T23:07:00.000-04:002008-10-03T23:07:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com